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Re: ISP and NAT (question and some thoughts)

  • From: Dean Anderson
  • Date: Mon Oct 18 15:17:53 1999

There are a couple of unused bits in the IPv4 header that one could use.  I thought of this during the last "paper" to expand address space that circulated this summer on nanog.

Unfortunately, the real problem is deployment.  Once you decide to change the protocol in any way that is not completely downward compatible, everyone has to deploy the modification.  I'm going to hazard a guess that IPv6 will really be widely deployed by tunneling it in IPv4. And I'll hazard that much of the IPv6 traffic will just contain tunnelled "private" IPv4 traffic. Tunnel inside tunnel.  So much for header compression. 

		--Dean

Around 01:13 PM 10/18/1999 -0400, rumor has it that jeanlou.dupont@na.marconicomms.com said:
>
>
>
>just a thought...
>
>why not expand the IPv4 address field using the 'Fragment offset' and
>'Identification' fields?
>Use those fields to mark packets at the edge with the destination AS number, for
>example.
>Customer equipment could use private address space and not bother with the edge
>remarking process.
>(I know that the fragmentation function would be lost due to this 'extension'.)
>(I am also aware of transitioning problems related to what I am proposing; the
>routers in the network cannot be upgrade all at once...)
>
>thoughts/comments?
>
>jld.
>
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>"Alex P. Rudnev" <alex@virgin.relcom.eu.net> on 10/18/99 12:46:50 PM
>
>To:   nanog@merit.edu
>cc:    (bcc: Jeanlou Dupont/RMQ/RELTECCORP)
>
>Subject:  ISP and NAT (question and some thoughts)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Today we see the classical schema ISP/customer; this means
>- the customer have his own address space, requested by him (directly or
>undirectly)
>- due to the lack of public addresses, the customers are forced to use
>NAT; just NAT provide some extra security
>- ISP do not provide NAT themself; NAT configuration is not easy task and
>cause a lot of headache for the customers (just as a lot of money they pay
>to the network admins).
>
>First question - is this picture right or it is wrong?
>
>The second question. What prevent the _future ISP_ from some another
>schema, when:
>- the customer always use the private address space, for example,
>10.0.0.0/8;
>- the provider bother about address translation, just as about name
>translation (DNS re-writing), just as about the address allocation (not
>the customer but the provider - if existing address space is not enough);
>- the providers's software learn about _open, or public_ services which
>must be translated statically, from the customer using (for example) DNS.
>
>Don't answer _it's too slow_.
>
>This is my attempt to predict where we are going this days. Today the
>_know-how_ the customer should know is too huge - if (if I am the admin of
>the company, not ISP!) I open electronic
>market or want to get Internet for the companies employees, I must
>allocate space (why? What for? It's not my concern, if we think a little),
>I must prove I need this addresses (why? This is my business how much
>addresses I need internally; and let's software decide how much addresses
>I need externally), and I should configure firewalls and NAT's. We used to
>think about it as about the normal admin's knowledge; but why we are sure
>it's normal. If you got a car (in USA, not in the Russia), you don't
>bother about the oil stations or about the roads - you just use it.
>
>This is not really a dump question. If it is possible to build such
>Internet service when every customer should be free to use any address
>space in the hidden way, and ISP (not the customer) bother about the
>global address and name translation, we should have just this hierarchical
>address schema IPv6 offer to us. On the other hand, it means a great
>increase in the NAT engine.
>
>
>Aleksei Roudnev, Network Operations Center, Relcom, Moscow
>(+7 095) 194-19-95 (Network Operations Center Hot Line),(+7 095) 230-41-41, N
>13729 (pager)
>(+7 095) 196-72-12 (Support), (+7 095) 194-33-28 (Fax)
>
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++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
           Plain Aviation, Inc                  dean@av8.com
           LAN/WAN/UNIX/NT/TCPIP          http://www.av8.com
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++





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