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NANOG Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18
- From: nanog-request
- Date: Mon Aug 09 14:49:08 2010
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: NOC Best Practices (Stefan Listr?m)
2. Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble (Frank A. Coluccio)
3. Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble (Christopher Morrow)
4. Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble (Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu)
5. Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster (Florian Weimer)
6. Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble (Nick Hilliard)
7. Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble (Andy Davidson)
8. Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster (Chaim Rieger)
9. Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster (Reese)
10. Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster (Jason Iannone)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:01:59 +0200
From: Stefan Listr?m <stefan@nordu.net>
Subject: Re: NOC Best Practices
To: Kasper Adel <karim.adel@gmail.com>
Cc: NANOG list <nanog@nanog.org>
Message-ID: <4C600A57.8060801@nordu.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Hello Kim
I am also interested in NOC best practices, but have found out that it
is not easy to find much documented on the subject. I think as most seem
to have already answered in your thread, that is because every NOC is a
little different from the other. Specially depending on the type of
organisation or company they are working for.
One of the things we have done in the research and educational community
in Europe is to start a Task Force[1] on the topic. The task force has
not really kicked off yet, so unfortunately we don't have any answers to
your questions yet. I also guess your from a commercial company which
might have a little different priorities than "we" do. That said, maybe
looking at our questions and problems, might give you some food for
thoughts in regards to what is important for your NOC.
Following my link[2] below you can find our Terms of Reference.
Basically what we are aiming to investigate and what we initially think
is interesting to discuss in regards to a NOC.
Not sure if it is helpful for you, but during our initial discussions
around the task force we had some presentations about the NOC from
different kinds of organisations. You can find the presentation slides
on our meeting page[3].
If you are interested in ITIL and operations I can recommend the
following two books:
IT Service Management Based on ITIL V3, A Pocket Guide
The Visible OPS Handbook, Implementing ITIL in 4 practical and auditable
steps
They are fairly easily read and make some good points. But if you
consider implementing ITIL, be aware of the fact that it is easy to
overcomplicating things. I would recommend starting out small and only
use the things you think makes sense in regards to your organisation.
Someone in this thread mentioned e-tom[4] which is published by TMForum.
TMForum publish best practices in among other things operations, the
downside is that you have to be a member to access most of their
published documents.
[1] http://www.terena.org/activities/tf-noc/
[2] http://www.terena.org/activities/tf-noc/tf-noc-tor_v3.pdf
[3] http://www.terena.org/activities/tf-noc/prep/programme.html
[4]
http://www.tmforum.org/DocumentsBusiness/BusinessProcessFramework/35431/article.html
Best regards
Stefan
On 2010-07-16 20:34, Kasper Adel wrote:
> Thanks for all the people that replied off list, asking me to send them
> responses i will get.
>
> I got nothing other than :
> http://www.nanog.org/meetings/nanog24/abstracts.php?pt=OTM1Jm5hbm9nMjQ=&nm=nanog24
> and
>
> Network Management- Accounting and Performance Strategies - Just the first
> three chapters
>
> Which is useful but i am looking for more stuff from the best people that
> run the best NOCs in the world.
>
> So i'm throwing this out again.
>
> I am looking for pointers, suggestions, URLs, documents, donations on what a
> professional NOC would have on the below topics:
>
> 1) Briefly, how they handle their own tickets with vendors or internal
> 2) How they create a learning environment for their people (Documenting
> Syslog, lessons learned from problems...etc)
> 3) Shift to Shift hand over procedures
> 4) Manual tests they start their day with and what they automate (common
> stuff)
> 5) Change management best practices and working with operations/engineering
> when a change will be implemented
>
> Should i be looking for ITIL stuff or its not any good?
>
> Thanks,
> Kim
>
> On Wed, Jul 14, 2010 at 8:24 PM, Kasper Adel<karim.adel@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Hello Everyone,
>>
>> I am currently working on building a NOC so i'm looking for
>> materials/pointers to Best Practices documented out there.
>>
>> On the top of my head are things like:
>>
>> 1) Documenting Incidents and handling them
>> 2) Documenting Syslog messages
>> 3) Documenting Vendor Software Bugs
>> 4) Shift to Shift Hand over procedures
>> 5) Commonly used scripts for monitoring
>> 6) Frequently testing High Availability
>> 7) Capturing config changes.
>> ....etc
>>
>> I can see that this is years of experience but i am wondering if any of
>> this was captured some where.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Kim
>>
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 08:01:12 -0700
From: "Frank A. Coluccio" <frank@fttx.org>
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble
To: "Andrew Odlyzko" <odlyzko@umn.edu>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <20100809080112.12211BFB@resin05.mta.everyone.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
re:
Capacity ".... as measured by OC12-miles,
doubles every four months..."
Now that's a fascinating form of metric in itself.
Distance * bit-rate equals capacity? What happened
to the 'traffic' component? Likewise, what does this
say regarding the various thresholds for refreshing
bandwidth that individual operators have set as
defaults, i.e., 20%, or 50%, or even 90%, before
pulling the trigger and lighting up the next OC 'n'?
Some providers tweaked 'n tuned their networks until
the cows came home, others threw bandwidth 'lavishly'
at the first inkling of the next plateau being reached.
Even full disclosure by all Tier Ones concerning the
number of OC-12 ports they were using, under these
conditions, couldn't give an accurate picture of
actual traffic levels being supported, IMO.
--- odlyzko@umn.edu wrote:
From: odlyzko@umn.edu (Andrew Odlyzko)
To: randy@psg.com
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet bubble
Date: Sun, 08 Aug 2010 08:30:44 -0500
Fascinating. Memories may be plastic (something that has been
established scientifically), or else we may have yet another
inconsistency to add to the pile of others. Is there any
documentation about the "doubling every nine months"? I have
never seen that particular claim emanating from anyone involved
with WorldCom/UUNet.
On the other hand, existing record shows (among others):
1. U.S. Department of Commerce white paper from April 1998,
http://govinfo.library.unt.edu/ecommerce/EDEreprt.pdf
on p. 8 declares that "UUNET, one of the largest Internet
backbone providers, estimates that Internet traffic doubles
every 100 days," with a reference to an Inktomi white paper
that attributes this claim to Mike O'Dell. The Inktomi
report is no longer on the Web, but I can provide a copy
to anyone interested.
2. The transcript of the May 2000 presentation by O'Dell
at a Stanford conference clearly has him saying that the
capacity of the UUNet network, as measured by OC12-miles,
doubles every four months,
http://www.dtc.umn.edu/~odlyzko/isources/odell-transcript.txt
As is explained in my paper, in the 1998-2000 time frame,
essentially all the WorldCom/UUNet claims then seemed to be
about capacity, not traffic.
3. The year-end 2000 email from O'Dell to Dave Farber's IP list,
http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200011/ms
g00058.html
has him talking of traffic doubling each year, while capacity
grows 8-fold.
If some time in that period there was a claim of a "doubling
every nine months," too, that would be very interesting.
Andrew
Randy Bush <randy@psg.com> wrote:
> >> my memory is that he said doubling every nine months.
> > Mine too.
>
> mo's too. i asked.
>
> randy
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 11:12:14 -0400
From: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble
To: Dorian Kim <dorian@blackrose.org>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, Andrew Odlyzko <odlyzko@umn.edu>
Message-ID:
<AANLkTina+hT2pRox=_QNNy8xD6rfqYdxBC-yVhWFEJ5C@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
On Thu, Aug 5, 2010 at 6:27 PM, Dorian Kim <dorian@blackrose.org> wrote:
> Was Mike O'Dell's famous doubling every 100 days just a myth?
> Like any good tale, there most likely was an element of truth
> behind it.
I think, from another list about 2 yrs ago, the person responsible for
this data inside the company at the time (now not there) said someone
misinterpreted his stats/numbers...
-chris
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 11:32:09 -0400
From: Valdis.Kletnieks@vt.edu
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble
To: frank@fttx.org
Cc: nanog@nanog.org, Andrew Odlyzko <odlyzko@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <144011.1281367929@localhost>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
On Mon, 09 Aug 2010 08:01:12 PDT, "Frank A. Coluccio" said:
> re:
> Capacity ".... as measured by OC12-miles,
> doubles every four months..."
> Now that's a fascinating form of metric in itself.
> Distance * bit-rate equals capacity? What happened
> to the 'traffic' component?
It's a measure of *capacity*, not traffic. If you string up 1 1GE line or a
bundle of 24 100GE, that's the *capacity* of the path, even if there's only 600
mbits/sec actually flowing. Remember your car's gas tank only hold 17.6 gallons
of gas, whether you drive enough that you buy gas every Monday and Thursday, or
so little you only buy gas on the 3rd of every month.
And adding miles as a component has its uses - stringing an OC-12 across a
meet-me room is less of a challenge than lighting up a Boston-San Diego link.
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------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 16:32:21 +0000
From: Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de>
Subject: Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster
To: Graham Beneke <graham@apolix.co.za>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <82lj8fn3vu.fsf@mid.bfk.de>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
* Graham Beneke:
> On 09/08/2010 07:21, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
>> I helped install my first Akamai cluster before year 2000 if I remember
>> correctly. So it's at least a decade ago :P
>
> What I find funny is that Google has already been running these kinds
> of content distribution nodes in Africa for over a year.
They certainly have got infrastructure all over the globe.
The Verizon is probably just a private peering agreement, and someone
misinterpreted that (or deliberately misrepresented it).
--
Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de>
BFK edv-consulting GmbH http://www.bfk.de/
Kriegsstra?e 100 tel: +49-721-96201-1
D-76133 Karlsruhe fax: +49-721-96201-99
------------------------------
Message: 6
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 17:45:51 +0100
From: Nick Hilliard <nick@foobar.org>
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble
To: Christopher Morrow <morrowc.lists@gmail.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <4C6030BF.1030306@foobar.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 09/08/2010 16:12, Christopher Morrow wrote:
> I think, from another list about 2 yrs ago, the person responsible for
> this data inside the company at the time (now not there) said someone
> misinterpreted his stats/numbers...
No doubt this is true. And I note we haven't even started discussing
whether this "doubling every N time periods" refers to bit-rate, bytes
passed or daily max.
I would have said that most networks during that period had occasional
burst growth rates of up to 100% within 100 days. The growth curve second
derivative is usually much bumpier than the first derivative. So,
regardless of source, the quotation is a truism, an urban myth and
ultimately means very little.
Nick
------------------------------
Message: 7
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 18:43:13 +0100
From: Andy Davidson <andy@nosignal.org>
Subject: Re: off-topic: historical query concerning the Internet
bubble
To: nanog list <nanog@nanog.org>
Cc: Andrew Odlyzko <odlyzko@umn.edu>
Message-ID: <E74AA254-FA7F-47BD-8C8D-04C18C0EAD4C@nosignal.org>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
On 7 Aug 2010, at 18:09, Roland Perry didn't exactly write:
> 'a good rule of thumb during the late 1990's was that traffic doubled every 100 days'
This is the West, sir. When the legend becomes fact, print the legend.
To the original poster, there is another collection of memes (some might even/one day be true) on the 'Future of the Internet' lecture series, on Stanford's 'iTunes U' area - lecture 3 is on Internet Economics and touches on the history of this (mis?)-quote ?
Best wishes
Andy
------------------------------
Message: 8
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 10:43:14 -0700
From: Chaim Rieger <chaim.rieger@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster
To: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTinJ-2HwcF+gdmuSkZoVYQ4-bF+U8uv9sM6St1SC@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
WSJ has live updates on the google - verizon release
http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2010/08/09/live-blogging-the-google-verizon-net-neutrality-announcement/
------------------------------
Message: 9
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 2010 14:23:46 -0400
From: Reese <reese@inkworkswell.com>
Subject: Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster
To: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID: <4C6047B2.9050107@inkworkswell.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
On 09 Aug 10 12:32 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
> * Graham Beneke:
>
>> On 09/08/2010 07:21, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
>>> I helped install my first Akamai cluster before year 2000 if I remember
>>> correctly. So it's at least a decade ago :P
>>
>> What I find funny is that Google has already been running these kinds
>> of content distribution nodes in Africa for over a year.
>
> They certainly have got infrastructure all over the globe.
Hmmm. "If it plays in [insert name of locale in Africa]" will not have
the same ring as "Peoria." For the older genset anyway. Maybe if it
rhymes? Spoken to a musical backdrop? The current crop of youts will
not hesitate once.
> The Verizon is probably just a private peering agreement, and someone
> misinterpreted that (or deliberately misrepresented it).
Or it was supposed to be a secret. G was still denying any sort of
agreement with V, last I heard.
Reese
------------------------------
Message: 10
Date: Mon, 9 Aug 2010 12:46:50 -0600
From: Jason Iannone <jason.iannone@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Google wants your Internet to be faster
To: Reese <reese@inkworkswell.com>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Message-ID:
<AANLkTikRznavknD+o43=Mtq7wnqF7SxfX5qDqi4JnFiO@mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
http://googlepublicpolicy.blogspot.com/2010/08/joint-policy-proposal-for-open-internet.html
Pretty boiler plate pro net neutral. The transparency requirements
and 'differentiated services' exceptions are particularly interesting.
On Mon, Aug 9, 2010 at 12:23 PM, Reese <reese@inkworkswell.com> wrote:
> On 09 Aug 10 12:32 PM, Florian Weimer wrote:
>>
>> * Graham Beneke:
>>
>>> On 09/08/2010 07:21, Mikael Abrahamsson wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I helped install my first Akamai cluster before year 2000 if I remember
>>>> correctly. So it's at least a decade ago :P
>>>
>>> What I find funny is that Google has already been running these kinds
>>> of content distribution nodes in Africa for over a year.
>>
>> They certainly have got infrastructure all over the globe.
>
> Hmmm. "If it plays in [insert name of locale in Africa]" will not have
> the same ring as "Peoria." For the older genset anyway. Maybe if it rhymes?
> Spoken to a musical backdrop? The current crop of youts will
> not hesitate once.
>
>> The Verizon is probably just a private peering agreement, and someone
>> misinterpreted that (or deliberately misrepresented it).
>
> Or it was supposed to be a secret. G was still denying any sort of
> agreement with V, last I heard.
>
> Reese
>
>
>
>
>
>
------------------------------
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End of NANOG Digest, Vol 31, Issue 18
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