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Re: Paul Vixie serving ORSN

  • From: Roy Arends
  • Date: Fri Sep 30 15:53:35 2005

On Fri, 30 Sep 2005, Paul Vixie wrote:

> > I don't regard this as good, but note this from the ORSN FAQ:
> >
> > 	* Has ORSN additional TLDs like .DNS, .AUTO?
> >
> > 	No. ORSN is a "Legacy Root" and 100% compatible with ICANN's
> > 	root zone.
> >
> > 	and
> >
> > 	Furthermore, no additional (alternative) top level domains
> > 	will be added to the ORSN root-servers like ORSC, NEW.NET,
> > 	public-root and other networks did it.
> >
> > It is *not* the same as what you've been advocating.
> indeed, it is not.  anyone who shows fealty to the universal IANA namespace
> can count on my support.  when i read the above FAQ, i volunteered the same
> hour.  note that this is me acting personally, and not in my capacity as an
> employee of ISC or any other entity.
> > As for why it's not good -- at least one query ('dig ns .') will yield
> > different answers,
> this is the other reason why i took an interest in ORSN.  the trinity of
> ICANN/VeriSign/US-DoC has spent far more good will than they've brought in,
> and many folks around the world seem now to be looking for ways to take
> their fate in their own hands.  ORSN shows fealty to the universal IANA
> namespace, and edits the ". NS" RRset of "their" zone only because there is
> no other way to accomplish their independence goals.  by helping them, i
> can learn more about how this works out in practice.  by operating a server,
> i can measure and contemplate the traffic.

I don't get this. You pretend there is a difference between
ICANN/VeriSign/US-DoC and universal IANA namespace. They are one and the
same. If you trying to seperate the infrastructure from the namespace,
imho the infrastructure _is_ independent. I don't see ISC nor RIPE getting
approval from ICANN/VeriSign/US-DoC whenever they deploy a new any-cast
instance of a root-server, and prolly because there is no such
requirement. So that argument is out the door.

Anyway, let me attach a response I send last year about ORSN. The
stats may be a little out of date, but the general tone is still valid.



Date: Wed, 13 Oct 2004 13:20:50 +0200 (CEST)
From: Roy Arends <>
To: Stephane Bortzmeyer <>
Cc: Yiorgos Adamopoulos <>,
Subject: Re: [dns-wg] Re: ORSN-SERVERS.NET

On Wed, 13 Oct 2004, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote:

> On Wed, Oct 13, 2004 at 10:28:57AM +0200,
>  Roy Arends <> wrote
>  a message of 19 lines which said:
> > Please read RFC 2826
> Please read about ORSN
> ( ORSN is *not* an
> alternative root.

I did.

It is an alternative root, since it is not sanctioned nor supported

The main reason for the ORSN is outlined in the about page at their site.
IMHO, their reasons (a lesser dependency on non-european instances of
authoritative root-servers, but correct me if I'm wrong) are less valid
nowadays, since some of the ICANN root-server operators chose to use
anycast as a viable means to spread the load on the root-zone. 26 sites, (5 in EU, 4 in US) 17 sites, (11 in EU, 2 in US) 13 sites, (3 in EU, 7 in US) 6 sites, (5 in EU and 1 in Qatar) 3 sites, (1 in EU)
The rest of roots: 11 sites in US.

In total 76 instances of a root-server of which are 25 in the
EU, 26 in the US, and 50 outside EU/US.

And this network is growing and growing.

I can recommend any organisation who has the resources (skill and
infrastructure) that would like to help to spread the load of the
root-servers to contact the anycast-enabled root operators (ISC,
Autonomica/Nordunet, RIPE).

In comparison, there are 13 ORSN servers based in europe, of which are 2
unused, and 1 has errors.

I do understand the effort ORSN is trying to make. If it is to spread load
and create less dependency, they are obviously not up to par with the
ICANN root-server network. If they effort is merely a political protest,
that is a different layer I know nothing about.


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