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Re: Internet Core Routing - Ethernet
- From: Bob Martinez
- Date: Sun Sep 29 01:18:00 2002
Hmm... so if somebody posts to the list with the problem, and somebody else
that same issue and got a fix from the vendor, they need to send it to the
vendor for comment, or they can say "Oh, you're being bit by bug (can't say
because it would identify the vendor) in a (vendor model you can't say)
hops upstream from you".
Is this a problem? Not on my team.
> talk about Internet core routing in those terms. Sure, all vendors
> but some suck WAY more than others. I think we all know the names. I
And how did we learn the names? Let's see.. Cisco, Juniper, Proteon, Bay,
Dude, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You didn't mention my vendor.
add whatever names you want. You probably have your own opinions on what
each piece of gear is good at.
I'm pretty much good at any vendor, not great. Some I prefer more than
others. I hate wearing my sunglasses to work!
Now, did you actually *buy* and *use* all of that gear yourself?
Friends in the community are my most trusted resource.
It kept me faithful in a single vendor for awhile. I still kinda like that
you let the common knowledge base called NANOG help you out?
No mistakes to report, sir. NANOG keeps me informed. It is invaluable when
used for operations. The Melissa virus, the WTC disaster, business
disasters. I didn't mention the names of service providers, but I consider
them to be vendors as well. Let's focus on traffic congestion, resource
allocation, problems, fixes, reports, and other issues. A vendor that
releases an official press release is more than welcome on NANOG. Up to you
gues. I'm just aginst opinionated vendor information coming from NANOG.
learning from the mistakes and mishaps of others is a lot cheaper than
> now way more than I ever did about token ring. Wake up. How many
Must I answer this? I trust myself more than anyone else, that is for sure.
I know how to build a network without making too many mistakes, but I
always seem to fix them and keep the customer (user) happy. Usually I fix
them before they become big. Covey taught me that.
> can vendor X support with IBGP Nailed Routes? What is the convergence
> for 100,000 routes? Does vendor Z have wire-speed ACL,s, PBR, MPLS?
Which would you trust for any of these numbers - a salesdroid *saying* a
number, or 5 different people on the NANOG list who have all seen a much
lower-performance number out in the field?
I can build a network with any vendor. Just like you. Vendor does NOT
MATTER TO ME! If you're posting on NANOG and you don't feel the same,
perhaps you'd better unsubscribe. The other option may be to study
No one said squelch. I don't see squelching on the charter for NANOG.
Announce as loud as you want to. Be like other mailing lists and moderate
it. Send it to the vendor first. If the vendor doesn't help you, post it.
Just like they do with the abuse lists. This is operational. I doubt if
you'll ever need to send anything to NANOG. ALL OF THE VENDORS WANT TO HELP
YOU THE BEST THAT THEY CAN!
How helpful would this list be if vendors had the right to squelch any
Everything else you said (below) makes you look like the mad scientist from
my POV. My R&D budget is down 72% from last year. RPR? RUCRAZY? Look
forward to seeing you on the battlefield while I chop you to shreds. Not a
single ATM project on the map nowadays huh? MPLS is out there, but who
needs it 'cept for certain situations sometimes driven by business needs.
When I need it, I hope it is over Ethernet.
Wouldn't you rather have a reliable, redundant L2 core with isolated
failures and fast recovery? Isn't it just a circuit switched verses packet
switched argument? Who cares about the digital wrapper! Ethernet is my
digital wrapper of choice because of vendor chipsets supporting it and
quality product. It meets my requirements today. My real world
requirements. There are many examples of Ethernet in the internet core
today. I know of many service providers using another vendor besides the
two favorites on NANOG. They have reference customers. I am one of them.
I've been using them for over 3 years and I have no major complaints.
Ethernet: 2 (Mike Lieber did not challenge Ethernet as a technology)
> 2. Ethernet is the technology.
Excuse me if I chuckle, having heard THAT before in the last 2 decades or
I've learned to not take *anybody* seriously when they say something is
anything. Structured programming wasn't the end-all, nor was ATM, nor was
Java, nor will XML or Ethernet. Yes, 10G-E will probably see wide
But I'll make a prediction - there will be something else coming out to
replace it long before it finishes replacing what's out there now.
(For bonus points, compare the level-1 media characteristics of the
10mbit-over-thickwire with the 10gig-over-optical, and ask yourself if
anything in common other than the name. It's amazingly reminiscent of the
saying "I don't know what language number-crunchers will use 20 years from
but it will be called Fortran"....)
Computer Systems Senior Engineer
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