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Re: Internet Core Routing - Ethernet

  • From: Valdis.Kletnieks
  • Date: Sat Sep 28 20:12:15 2002

On Sat, 28 Sep 2002 06:21:17 -0000, Bob Martinez <>  said:

> technology on this list.  Just like the charters.  I would recommend to 
> NANOG "if you disagree, say nay" that any post to NANOG with a vendor name 
> in it be sent to the vendor for comment before being posted to the list.  

Hmm... so if somebody posts to the list with the problem, and somebody else saw
that same issue and got a fix from the vendor, they need to send it to the
vendor for comment, or they can say "Oh, you're being bit by bug (can't say
because it would identify the vendor) in a (vendor model you can't say) several
hops upstream from you".

> talk about Internet core routing in those terms.  Sure, all vendors suck, 
> but some suck WAY more than others.  I think we all know the names.  I would 

And how did we learn the names?  Let's see.. Cisco, Juniper, Proteon, Bay,
add whatever names you want.  You probably have your own opinions on what
each piece of gear is good at.

Now, did you actually *buy* and *use* all of that gear yourself?  Or did
you let the common knowledge base called NANOG help you out?  Remember that
learning from the mistakes and mishaps of others is a lot cheaper than doing
them yourself...

> now way more than I ever did about token ring.  Wake up.  How many routes
> can vendor X support with IBGP Nailed Routes?  What is the convergence time 
> for 100,000 routes? Does vendor Z have wire-speed ACL,s, PBR, MPLS?  10GigE? 

Which would you trust for any of these numbers - a salesdroid *saying* a
number, or 5 different people on the NANOG list who have all seen a much
lower-performance number out in the field?

How helpful would this list be if vendors had the right to squelch any
adverse publicity?

> 2.  Ethernet is the technology.

Excuse me if I chuckle, having heard THAT before in the last 2 decades or so.

I've learned to not take *anybody* seriously when they say something is "THE"
anything.  Structured programming wasn't the end-all, nor was ATM, nor was
Java, nor will XML or Ethernet.  Yes, 10G-E will probably see wide deployment.
But I'll make a prediction - there will be something else coming out to
replace it long before it finishes replacing what's out there now.

(For bonus points, compare  the level-1 media characteristics of the original
10mbit-over-thickwire with the 10gig-over-optical, and ask yourself if there's
anything in common other than the name.   It's amazingly reminiscent of the
saying "I don't know what language number-crunchers will use 20 years from now,
but it will be called Fortran"....)
				Valdis Kletnieks
				Computer Systems Senior Engineer
				Virginia Tech

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