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Re: Paul's Mailfrom (Was: IETF SMTP Working Group Proposal at

  • From: Patrick
  • Date: Tue Aug 27 00:01:22 2002

On Tue, 27 Aug 2002, Paul Vixie wrote:

> > > If this function of your ISP costs less than 1 FTE per 10,000
> > > dialups or 1,000 T1's or 100 T3's, then your ISP is a slacker and
> > > probably a magnet for professional spammers as well.
> > ... you're offering very definitive figures/labeling, and I'm curious
> > as to what you are basing your calculations/labels on, and what the
> > linearity of the scaling is in your opinion.
> >
> > Your own experience at MAPS? At MFN? Wishful thinking?
> those numbers are very round.  i've seen folks do 1 FTE per 50,000
> dialup users and get away with it, but that person was VERY busy.  that
> ratio only works if the rest of the system is designed to repel the
> professional spammers, i.e., full ANI with filtering, full verification
> of credit cards (charge and refund before opening the account),
> nonrefundable deposit if terminated for spamming, and instant
> termination even at 4AM on sunday morning, ~30 hours or more before the
> account manager or any other manager could give approval.

All good additions, thanks for the clarification.

> > Personally, I'd much rather try to justify a FTE for 1000 T-1s than I
> > would for 10,000 dialup users.
> like i said, the numbers were very round.  as long as you understand that
> there IS a ratio and that the cost of dealing with outbound traffic does
> not end at the demarc point where it's handed to a peer or transit, then
> what the actual nonzero "abuse desk" costs actually are is a detail.
> this seems like something isp/c or cix should do a survey on.

Unfortunately, both organizations seem to be defunct for all intents and
purposes, much to my disappointment.

The only *active* independent ISP organization I'm aware of is the
American ISP Association ( (disclaimer I know
very little about this organization, and it's obviously U.S.-centric.)

Perhaps the Spamcon Foundation( would be
well-suited to this task...

                               Patrick Greenwell
         Asking the wrong questions is the leading cause of wrong answers

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