Merit Network
Can't find what you're looking for? Search the Mail Archives.
  About Merit   Services   Network   Resources & Support   Network Research   News   Events   Home

Discussion Communities: Merit Network Email List Archives

North American Network Operators Group

Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical

RE: Eat this RIAA (or, the war has begun?) - Why not all ISPs?

  • From: Jeff Ogden
  • Date: Thu Aug 22 10:44:26 2002

At 10:32 PM -0700 8/21/02, Nigel Clarke wrote:
However, this type of action might not be necessary at all.

Some of the users on this list think RIAA's recent actions are nothing more
than empty threats.
Why doesn't NANOG make a few of its own?

A "polite" letter from a NANOG representative should do the trick.

Just to state the obvious, no one is authorized to represent NANOG in this fashion, not even folks here at Merit. NANOG isn't a decision making organization. NANOG isn't something that can take actions (other than holding a few meetings each year and managing this e-mail list).

Individuals and organizations that participate in NANOG can take actions, but not in NANOG's name. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect that lawyers should be consulted before taking individual or coordinated action of the sort being suggested against another organization.

Of course IPSs do take action against individuals or organizations all of the time, but they need to do that based on policies and procedures that take into account their obligations to their customers as well as their obligations under the law.

As an end user I really don't want my ISP to make decisions about who is allowed to communicate with me or who I am allowed to communicate with except when those decisions are based on policies designed to protect me or others from serious problems (DDOS attacks and the like), even then I want those policies to be written and available so I can review them, and I want them to be applied fairly.

As an ISP I really don't want my upstream ISPs to make decisions about who is allowed to communicate with my network or who my network is allowed to communicate with except under the conditions outlined in my agreements with those ISPs. This is important to me if I am in turn going to be able to meet my obligations to my own end users.

So, I really don't want the RIAA to tell me or my upstreams who I can't communicate with, but neither do I want my upstreams to tell me that I can't communicate with the RIAA or the labels if I (or really my customers) want to do so.

-Jeff Ogden
Merit Network


At 10:32 PM -0700 8/21/02, Nigel Clarke wrote:
However, this type of action might not be necessary at all.

Some of the users on this list think RIAA's recent actions are nothing more
than empty threats.
Why doesn't NANOG make a few of its own?

A "polite" letter from a NANOG representative should do the trick.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-nanog@merit.edu [mailto:owner-nanog@merit.edu]On Behalf Of
J.A. Terranson
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2002 7:01 PM
To: Nigel Clarke
Cc: Richard A Steenbergen; Jerry Eyers; nanog@merit.edu
Subject: RE: Eat this RIAA (or, the war has begun?) - Why not all ISPs?

 On Wed, Aug 21, 2002 at 09:08:03PM -0700, Nigel Clarke wrote:
 >
 > Why don't larger ISPs follow through on this? Simply deny RIAA any
 > access...

 And what IPs precisely are you planning to deny? So far its all idle
 threats, we have no idea where they plan to launch their scans or hacking
 attempts from, or even if they have any clue how to hack anything. I
 > highly doubt they'll be attaching riaa.com to it either.

The blocking of any an all directly RIAA sites, feeds, etc, would
produce an economic reaction.  Cut off their sales websites, their
basic connectivity (how much money do you think it would cost them
to go back to snail mail today?), their [few] subscription sites.

Let the money do the work.

Yours,

J.A. Terranson
sysadmin@mfn.org

* SPEAKING STRICTLY IN A PERSONAL CAPACITY *  at this time anyway.
We'll see if we can't change that.  Tomorrow.  Goddamn right!




Discussion Communities


About Merit | Services | Network | Resources & Support | Network Research
News | Events | Contact | Site Map | Merit Network Home


Merit Network, Inc.