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RE: Qwest Support

  • From: Daniel Golding
  • Date: Thu Apr 04 18:27:10 2002

I suppose. Except it's not even certain you were having a problem of any
kind at all.

Qwest's presence or absence from public IX's really has nothing to do with
your routes being announced. In fact, Qwest privately peers with all the
other large networks. While there are many peering sessions at the public
NAPs, most traffic is carried over private network interconnects, at least
domestically. Certain peering points in Europe (Linx), tend to run the other

In fact, if Qwest were publically peering with other networks, it might be a
reason why your routes through UUNet were being prefered - private peer
originated routes are almost always assigned higher local preferences in
carrier networks, then public peer originated routes.

I'm not sure your annoyance with Qwest has any basis in their lack of
performance, as far as IP routing. BGP decision rules and other networks'
routing policies will govern which paths are used for your routes. Here is
an example...

- Network X peers with UUNet in 8 locations. Network X also peers with
Qwest, lets say in 6 locations. For whatever reason, network X chooses
UUNet's routes to you over, Qwest's. This could be due to local routing
policy, dictating that 701 routes get a higher local pref. Or AS path
lengths could be the same, and the decision could be falling to something
like router ID. Whatever.

- In general, all the UUNet peering will get treated the same by Network X's
routing policy. This won't always be the case, but let's say that none of
the peering links are congested, etc. So, a certain number of paths are
carried throughout Network X via iBGP. If UUNet's routes "won" at all those
peering points, you will not see any paths through Qwest on a single carrier
route server like Nitrous.

- Route-views, and the like are different animals. They get ebgp multihop
views from many providers, so you will tend to see paths from many different
vantage points, and are more likely to see paths from both your upstreams.

ISPs get a heavy volume of calls every day. While Qwest may not have the
greatest customer service, it's not like you were actually down or had a
qwest originated routing issue. If that were the case, my sympathy would be

- Daniel Golding

-----Original Message-----
From: []On Behalf Of
Andy Dills
Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 5:43 PM
Subject: Qwest Support

Wow, Qwest support is indeed terrible.

Turned up the DS3 today...the connectivity seems fine. I decided to check
a couple of routeservers (nitrous); all had my much-prepended UUnet
announcement, but NONE had my Qwest announcement. Not a huge deal, but
curious to me.  Is Qwest just not at the public peering points? When I
checked, I felt better, but yet annoyed. Even
with the prepends, most networks were announcing UUnet's path.

So I decided to call them and what a mistake. The guy is like,
"Ok, hold on, let me get somebody from our IP noc." 10 minutes goes by,
and he comes back with "Couldn't get anybody in the IP noc, let me try to
get somebody in your install group" (being that I turned up the DS3
today). Comes back another 10 minutes later with "Well, I left a message
for them, but there isn't much I can do. Nobody seems to be answering
their phone. If somebody doesn't call you back within 30 minutes, here's
a number to call..."

So what if my routes were actually hosed? I'd just be screwed because they
can't get anybody at the IP noc?

I wait. Nobody calls back within 30 minutes. I call the number he gave me.
Busy. You gotta be kidding me.

So I call the main number again, talk to somebody different. She has me
hold, and then brings some guy on the line "who can help me". I start to
talk about route servers, and he's immediately like "Woah, this is a BGP
problem...I can't help you. Let me try to get somebody from the IP noc."

So, I wait on hold for about 15 minutes, only to be given dial tone.

Please tell me it isn't always THIS bad?


Andy Dills                              301-682-9972
Xecunet, LLC                  
Dialup * Webhosting * E-Commerce * High-Speed Access

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