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Re: whois

  • From: bmanning
  • Date: Tue Oct 24 22:41:43 2000


	In my specific case, yes, although I've worked w/ some
	organizations that have taken the approach described.
	Takes some time but once credibility is established,
	its easier to work with folk to curb undesirable behaviours.
	Trouble is, there is no consistant, globally accepted 
	definition of "acceptable behaviour", just like there is no
	common definition of pornography other than "I know it when 
	I see/smell/taste/hear it". Hence the wide variention in
	AUP & policy.  that said, diverstity is good & bounds checking is 
	a mark of a prudent ISP.


> 
> You're kidding, right?
> 
> -K
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com
> > [mailto:bmanning@vacation.karoshi.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2000 7:23 AM
> > To: tme@21rst-century.com
> > Cc: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: whois
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  Yow!  A chance to play devils advocate... Cool :)
> > 
> >  If you told me a dialup user on my network did anything, I'd doubt
> >  your veracity. How do you know I have dialup services in my network?
> >  The accuracy of your clock and the recorded IP address
> >  are suspect since I have zero visability into your network structure
> >  or administrative practice... and you don't have that visability into
> >  mine.  Your clock is hacked and you are forging IP addresses 
> > in an attempt
> >  to distract me from providing services. Tell me why this is 
> > not a simple
> >  case of harassment? Full and public disclosure of the attack 
> > profile would 
> >  help build your credibility.  And yes, if I have no business 
> > relationship
> >  to you and I've never had a relationship with you and you are making
> >  assertions about my infrastructure and clients, I will prolly want
> >  some incentive to cover the costs of investigating your outragous
> >  claims.
> > 
> > 
> > > Are you really saying that if I tell you that a dial-up 
> > user on your network
> > > hacked into my system at some precise time, from a precise 
> > IP address 
> > > (so that you could probably tell easily which user did it), 
> > and did so
> > > in a fashion
> > > which suggested an automated "script kiddie" effort, I should only
> > > expect a response from you if I PAY for it ?!? 
> > > 
> > > This seems pretty close to the "protection" money that I 
> > hear people with
> > > POP's in Moscow have to pay :) 
> > > 
> > > (BTW, I said nothing about timeliness
> > > or 24x7 availability - a note a week or two later would 
> > have sufficed.)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > > The key to an anti-hacker ISP association would be
> > > > > > a very special ip address / contact person lookup database.
> > > > > > ie: who/how to contact for the 'SWAT' response for a 
> > particular IP
> > > > > > address.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --Mike--
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello;
> > > > >
> > > > > When we have had attacks such as root exploits, we have 
> > notified the
> > > > > source (at least,
> > > > > the ISP hosting the immediate source) as to the date, 
> > time, IP address, etc.
> > > > > (In one case, the attack appeared to come from a 
> > dial-up address in Germany,
> > > > > so I thought we had them.) We have NEVER received a 
> > response. From
> > > > > conversations at meetings, etc., I understand that this 
> > is typical - almost
> > > > > universal - and that it would be naive to expect other 
> > ISPs to actually
> > > > > do anything
> > > > > about being a source for attacks.
> > > > >
> > > > > Maybe a start would be to a BCP for some level of 
> > minimal response if
> > > > > you source
> > > > > an attack, and a "web site of shame" listing those 
> > domains that source
> > > > > attacks and do nothing about it when notified.
> > > > >
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >                                    Regards
> > >                                    Marshall Eubanks
> > > 
> > > 
> > >    Multicast Technologies, Inc.
> > >    10301 Democracy Lane, Suite 201
> > >    Fairfax, Virginia 22030
> > >    Phone : 703-293-9624          Fax     : 703-293-9609     
> > >    e-mail : tme@on-the-i.com     http://www.on-the-i.com
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> 






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