Merit Network
Can't find what you're looking for? Search the Mail Archives.
  About Merit   Services   Network   Resources & Support   Network Research   News   Events   Home

Discussion Communities: Merit Network Email List Archives

North American Network Operators Group

Date Prev | Date Next | Date Index | Thread Index | Author Index | Historical

Re: Verio Decides what parts of the internet to drop

  • From: Travis Pugh
  • Date: Sun Dec 05 10:07:49 1999

Absolutely.  A standard would give ground rules, and would be something to
point to when you have to go to a client or customer and say "these are your
options."

Instead, we are looking at a routing system where some traffic will flow on
some networks if it is a longer subnet of a class B address, and will not
flow on some networks based on arbitrary filter decisions.  Some kind of RFC
based consistency would be great.

Cheers.

Travis

----- Original Message -----
From: Alex P. Rudnev <alex@virgin.relcom.eu.net>
To: Travis Pugh <tdp@discombobulated.net>
Cc: <nanog@merit.edu>
Sent: Sunday, December 05, 1999 2:56 AM
Subject: Re: Verio Decides what parts of the internet to drop


> may be - but it shoudl be written in the RFC, not in the VERIO's policy.
The
> global policy must be THE SAME over the global Internet.
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Dec 1999, Travis Pugh wrote:
>
> > Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1999 18:44:08 -0500
> > From: Travis Pugh <tdp@discombobulated.net>
> > To: Alex P. Rudnev <alex@virgin.relcom.eu.net>
> > Cc: nanog@merit.edu
> > Subject: Re: Verio Decides what parts of the internet to drop
> >
> > I've been lurking and looking at this conversation too long ... my head
is
> > spinning.  Alex says there are many reasons causing people to announce B
> > nets with short prefixes, and he is entirely right.  The primary one
would
> > be that a client, by some inexplicable reasoning, expects their Internet
> > service to be up and running reliably at least 95% of the time.
> >
> > The disturbing message I have been able to glean from this thread is
that:
> >
> > - If you need reliability, get a /19
> > - If you are a small customer, using only a /24 for connectivity (and
thus
> > helping to slow depletion) you are not BIG enough to expect multi-path
> > reliability into your network
> > - If you are a big provider, not only do you not have to provide a
> > consistent level of service to your customers, but you are free to block
> > them (and anyone else from other providers) arbitrarily when they spend
a
> > good deal of money to augment your service with someone else's
> >
> > The gist of the conversation, IMO, is that customers can't have
reliability
> > with one provider, but they will be blocked from having reliability
through
> > multiple providers if their addresses happen to be in the "wrong" space.
> > Something's wrong with that.
> >
> > Cheers.
> >
> > Travis
> > Eeeevillll consultant
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Alex P. Rudnev <alex@virgin.relcom.eu.net>
> > To: Randy Bush <rbush@bainbridge.verio.net>
> > Cc: <doug@safeport.com>; <nanog@merit.edu>
> > Sent: Saturday, December 04, 1999 5:08 PM
> > Subject: Re: Verio Decides what parts of the internet to drop
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > It should be your problem. You simply loss the part of connectivity...
> > >
> > > The real world is more complex than you drawn below. There is many
reasons
> > > causing people to announce class-B networks with the short prefixes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, 2 Dec 1999, Randy Bush wrote:
> > >
> > > > Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 13:00:17 -0800
> > > > From: Randy Bush <rbush@bainbridge.verio.net>
> > > > To: doug@safeport.com
> > > > Cc: nanog@merit.edu
> > > > Subject: Re: Verio Decides what parts of the internet to drop
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Apparently for their convenience Verio has decided what parts of
the
> > > > > Internet I can get to.
> > > >
> > > > verio does not accept from peers announcements of prefixes in
classic b
> > > > space longer than the allocations of the regional registries.
> > > >
> > > > we believe our customers and the internet as a whole will be less
> > > > inconvenienced by our not listening to sub-allocation prefixes than
to
> > have
> > > > major portions of the network down as has happened in the past.
some
> > here
> > > > may remember the 129/8 disaster which took significant portions of
the
> > net
> > > > down for up to two days.
> > > >
> > > > the routing databases are not great, and many routers can not handle
> > ACLs
> > > > big enough to allow a large to irr filter large peers.  and some
large
> > peers
> > > > do not register routes.
> > > >
> > > > so we and others filter at allocation boundaries and have for a long
> > time.
> > > > we assure you we do not do it without serious consideration or to
> > torture
> > > > nanog readers.
> > > >
> > > > > With no notification.
> > > >
> > > > verio's policy has been constant and public.
> > > >
> > > > randy
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Aleksei Roudnev,
> > > (+1 415) 585-3489 /San Francisco CA/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
> Aleksei Roudnev,
> (+1 415) 585-3489 /San Francisco CA/
>
>






Discussion Communities


About Merit | Services | Network | Resources & Support | Network Research
News | Events | Contact | Site Map | Merit Network Home


Merit Network, Inc.