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Re: Keepalives, WAS: NAP/ISP Saturation
- From: Tony Li
- Date: Sat Dec 21 04:16:46 1996
> No flap dampening, no
> hold-down "blackholing" after a failure (so as not to generate
> route withdrawals for transient link outages), silly priority
> and no sub-second ping intervals, and forget about LQM).
>None of these have anything to do with the link keepalive protocol and
>everything to do with internal link implementation. Let's not confuse the
Well, let us see:
a) dampening -- it makes a lot of sense to flap-dampen at circuit
level, where it is cheap and efficient; and not pass the flap
to routing protocols where it is a lot more expensive to process.
I.e. if a DS3 CSU lost its marbles, there's no reason to recompute
some 20K routes dependent on that particular circuit every 60 or
No argument. But this should not be part of the protocol per-se. This
should simply be the "device driver" if you will.
b) blackholing -- if a circuit went down it makes sense to wait for
some time (0.1 sec or so) and just drop traffic on the floor, in
hope that the outage is transient. There's a lot of momentary
carrier losses or other glitches in the telco transmission networks.
Only when outage is prolonged does it make sense to notify the
This is certainly already taken care of by any of the keepalive protocols
that I know of. The real question is what does the device driver do with
loss of carrier.
c) priority -- the link keepalive processes must have priorities
_higher_ than that of routing protocols.
I dunno about that one. I would argue that equal to the keepalives of the
protocols is sufficient. Neither should use enough bandwidth to
out-compete the other.
I.e. no amount of
routing updates should cause false link flapping due to delayed
keepalive messages. The same is true for keepalive messages vs
routing updates on a link.
If you have strict priority of keepalives over routing (and we should
distinguish between hellos and updates for those protocols where you can
tell the difference), you can (theoretically) starve the routing updates.
Thus, equal priority makes sense.
d) sub-second keepalive intervals -- this is probably the only
method to discover _fast_ that remote end is dead. The way it
is now it takes 30 sec or so for a local router to find out that
the remote one is wedged, and take appropriate action.
Do you really want that? Given your comments in b, I would think that you
would want to ride a 1 second outage. I also wouldn't be thrilled about
the overhead involved given much more precision. Note that what you said
originally was about ping, which is slightly different.
e) Link Quality Monitoring -- the usefulness is obvious. For most
link-level failures there are sufficient advance warnings (corrupted
checksums, etc). Also, there's a lot of things (like "stealth"
rerouting by transmission fabric) which in some cases make circuit
worse than a disconnected one. One particluar case i have in mind
suddenly increased link latency by some 400 ms (Satellites-R-Us,
that's it), so manual intervention was required to move traffic
off the link. In any case, some automatic LQM shut-offs (on
conditions like "latency is more than N ms" or "error frequency is
higher than 1:10e6") are clearly in order.
This is certainly relevant.
So i think the things i noted are rather relevant, and are necessary
if we're going to build a real production network.
Seems reasonable to me.
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